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Hanging Out 4ever
We couldn’t find a therapist, so we started a podcast. After 7 years of dating we nearly came to a breaking point and decided it was time to try something new, to talk about our feelings and record them. Our podcast is not the highlight reel of our relationship, it is our relationship, as authentic as possible. Dating and long term relationships can be difficult. Especially, when the internet seems so focused on only happy moments. We share our truth and hope it resonates with you and makes you feel less alone in the dating/ Long Term Relationship world.
Let's all figure this dating thing out together.✨
-Aja & Grant
WATCH US ON YOUTUBE https://www.youtube.com/@HangingOut4ever
Hanging Out 4ever
My Wife and I Are Polyamorous | Listener Letter!
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WE'RE BACK WITH ANOTHER EPISODE OF BESTIE-MAIL
Yes, this is later than our normal release time. Aja had jury duty. It sucked. but anywhooo,
We're back with more dilemmas, more drama, and more people who need advice from us and you.
Lets lock in because these are... interesting
This week we've got
1. A couple who are exploring polyamory 👀
2. A Black girl who'se white boyfriend is racist ðŸ˜
3. A badass Queen, who doesnt wanna change her last name once she's married.
Whip out your glasses and notebook, we're all therapists on this episode.
and Besties, we def need to hear your thoughts on this one.
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Besties, let us know what y'all think on this one!
-Grant & Aja
I, 29F, am married to another woman, and we've recently become polyamorous. Ooh.
SPEAKER_00This girl, she wasn't actually ready for polyamory.
SPEAKER_01Me and my fiancee just got engaged, and I do not want to take his last name. How do you feel about me not taking your last name?
SPEAKER_00Well, I thought we had a conversation that you were.
SPEAKER_01But legally, I would not change my blast name. It really is sacred to me.
SPEAKER_00I'm so sick of the legacy talk. It's a name.
SPEAKER_01What's up, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of Hanging Out Forever. My name is Asia Corinne. I'm your house. And we are here with my wonderful boyfriend man um Blackwell.
SPEAKER_00Grant Blackwell.
SPEAKER_01Grant Blackwell here. We are back with another listener letter episode.
SPEAKER_00Your favorites.
SPEAKER_01Y'all favorites. We're your favorites, bringing you your favorite episodes. So we finna get into it with these listener letters. Just a little bit of background. This has been a very insane week. I have been like picking up contracting gigs and picking up clients and stuff like that. And I recently turned down an offer to work at a huge company, y'all. Huge. Like makeup giant, makeup royalty. And they wanted me to run a certain department of their company, which I would have loved to do, but I did get another offer from another company that I was also very much excited to work with.
SPEAKER_00She also turned it down for you guys. Is that what you were gonna say?
SPEAKER_01No, but yeah, that's just a good one.
SPEAKER_00She turned it down for you guys so she can really focus on hanging out forever. And she's been doing an amazing job of running uh, you know, all the socials and things like that. Because we do it all all by ourselves. Yeah. We do this all by ourselves.
SPEAKER_01We don't have clippers, we don't have editors, we don't have filmers.
SPEAKER_00Because we're we do everything, you know, we do all of our own stunts. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01So that's true. You know, I thought about like whether or not this job would yes, it would have been huge for like, you know, my corporate career, but um thinking about weighing it out against the podcast and what I would be sacrificing to do this because it was fully remote, which was great, but it was like all day kind of full like a nine to five type situation. And I'm just in uh I've always been a gambler in that way.
SPEAKER_00Like we care more about our creative career than our corporate career.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but don't sleep on the corporate careers because they gonna get you, they're gonna get you into some doors. And that's how I got so many different interviews over the last few weeks is I've had a lot of experience and like creative corporate work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And now I have a new client slash I don't like calling anything a job, but I have a new client that I'm working with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01And I'm excited to work with this company and build towards an awesome future. It is a startup. I can't wait to tell you guys more about it. There we go. Um, and I totally believe in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll probably be talking about it later down the road.
SPEAKER_01We'll definitely be talking about it. Okay, but that's just a little bit of our background.
SPEAKER_00Now let's dive on in, guys.
SPEAKER_01Now let's dive on in. We've got the listener letters here. There's no theme today. And as per usual, I have skimmed them. I have not fully read them. And Grant is flying totally blind.
SPEAKER_00I'm blind with you guys. So, you know, this is our first listen.
SPEAKER_01It's our first listener letter.
SPEAKER_00I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Hey, hanging out forever. Oh, I do want to mention that all of the listener letters that we receive are directly sent to us from people who send them directly to us. We do not get them from Reddit. Yes. We don't get them from listener letter forums. Sometimes people might DM us some letters, but really we just get them from people who DM them or send them or submit them. Yep, directly to us. This is best email, okay? All right, let's get it. If you want to send us a listener letter, links in bio. Here we go. Number one. Hey, hanging out forever. Your presence online has helped me so much. Two exclamation marks. Let's go. I have been drowning in my relationship. I, 29F, am married to another woman who's 36, and we've been together almost six years, and we've recently become polyamorous.
SPEAKER_00Okay, interesting. Opening it up. Got it.
SPEAKER_01So obviously, there's drama. I've always wanted to try polyamory and have been open about that since we got married, which at first she didn't want to do, but now she's on board with it and exploring her options both in men and women.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01We are both very mature and connected, so we feel ready for this. But I recently fell for another woman I used to work with who also happens to be married, and she's married to a man.
SPEAKER_00This is an interesting dynamic already.
SPEAKER_01I love it. I've had feelings for her for a while, but I did not think that she was interested in women until she told me about how her first relationship ever was a girl. Once she told me that, I couldn't get her out of my head. A year later, I decided to stop ignoring my feelings and finally got the courage to tell her how I felt about her. And when I did, she said she felt the same way. Even though she likes me, she is still very avoidant. I know. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_01Even though she likes me, she is still very avoidant and confused, which makes sense. Her and her husband are not doing great, and she told me she's thinking about getting divorced. A part of me is excited about this, but also nervous. I don't want to be a part of breaking up a marriage, even if it isn't quote unquote happy. And I'm concerned that once she leaves her husband, she'll develop expectations of us being together, which is great. But also, I have a wife and I want to be Polly, but I don't want to be committed to anyone other than my wife.
SPEAKER_00Man, the Polly thing is so tricky. It's tricky as hell.
SPEAKER_01I feel like, I feel like, yeah. I feel like for some reason when it's a bunch of women, it's all it's even more tricky. We'll get into it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. We'll get into it.
SPEAKER_01Um, I don't want to be committed to anyone other than my wife. While all of this is going on, my wife has also started her new relationship with a man.
SPEAKER_00Okay, there's so oh my god, there's so many levels to this.
SPEAKER_01I love layers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I have a lot of feelings about that, which make me uncomfortable. And in parentheses, it says, because he's a man and we're gay. IDK, it just feels weird and different, even though she has always kind of identified as bi. He's a nice guy, and I really like him as a person and for her. And even though being poly was my idea, this just feels like too much at once. Oh no. The fact that I have to deal with an avoidant new connection and my wife starting a new relationship with a man has me drowning. Help, I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00T babe. I know. Wow.
SPEAKER_01T babe.
SPEAKER_00That's tricky. The the Polly thing is always tricky, you know. And there is something to that of when it's all women involved, it seems a little trickier. I don't know why that is. Yeah, I don't know why either.
SPEAKER_01It does seem to me that like it would well, you know what?
SPEAKER_00You know what's extra tricky there is that they're in a uh lesbian relationship, and then the wife is now hooking up with a guy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then she's trying to hook up with a girl who's married to a guy. So there's a lot of weird dynamics. There's so many layers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think it's so interesting. My thing with Polly is I don't know if it truly works.
SPEAKER_00I I think somebody ends up getting jealous, hurt, emotional.
SPEAKER_01I feel like, I feel like if you're in a committed relationship and you're exploring other people, like you're having threesomes and foursomes and orgies and things like that, different. That's different. But when you're poly and you're exploring actual relationship dynamics within your relationship dynamic, I think that that complicates things. And it's also like, where do you draw the line? And for me, if I was gay and my wife was like, I'm gonna go get some dingling, I'd be like, ew wow, but that's what I'm saying, right? Yeah, like that's I'd be like, ew, but men are icky, pretty outside of their norm. There's something about the penetration aspect of like a woman who has been gay, or obviously identify as bisexual, but who has been gay for quite some time, strictly or exclusively, and now she's being penetrated by a man. There's something about that that like I I I hear you.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what it is. It seems like they jumped into this too quickly.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And they didn't communicate it, they didn't, you know, draw out some guidelines here because now everybody's overstepping, everybody's breaking rules, you know, and this is like the first time they're trying it. And the first guy that or person that one of them hooks up with, there's already an issue.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it doesn't seem like they communicated this properly. They haven't actually genuinely talked about it. I think they just got excited about the idea of it and just wanted to try it. And then it seems like the girl who wrote this is starting to get infatuated by some other woman. Um, and then how the where's the boundary there too? Right. Is do you guys just have a sexual relationship? Or it seems like she's what I'm curious about.
SPEAKER_01That that's what made me a little bit nervous for you, girl, was that she wants she wants to divorce her husband, which seems like it doesn't have anything to do with you. Yeah. But at the same time, that would make me uncomfortable. Like if I was going into a polyamorous um explorer explorative phase, right? Um, and I if I was going into a polyamorous explorative phase and I had this woman that I like really, really liked and I developed feelings for her, and I know that she has a man, I would be more reserved to tell her about my feelings in the first place. But then beyond that, the fact that she potentially wants to divorce her husband, I think is a little bit nerve-wracking because now the expectation of a sustainable relationship is gonna be put onto you and you're married already.
SPEAKER_00Do you so it's like does that girl, do you think that girl knows that she's married? The girl who's about to divorce her husband, she knows. She knows. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I mean, well, she didn't say that she knows, but I would assume I would assume it's ethical, ethical non-monogamy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. So hopefully she knows. And you think she's okay with the whole situation?
SPEAKER_01I mean, yeah, I feel like that's something I would like to explore too. Is like, is the woman that you have a crush on interested in the dynamic between the three of you guys? Or is it just exclusively with you? And how are you going to balance that relationship? And then beyond that, I think it's concerning to be with somebody who has developed feelings for you at a time in their life where they're like relationship is unstable. Yeah. Well, she's not going through a divorce, she's thinking about getting a divorce.
SPEAKER_00Got it. Let me see. But but yeah, it seems like an unstable time in her life, and she's kind of coming in and probably being her like voice of reason in this too. So obviously, if she has feelings for her, she's gonna be like, dump that guy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, leave him, leave him.
SPEAKER_00You're not happy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I will say that. That's good advice. If she divorces her husband, it has to be on her own accord. It cannot be because you influenced her to do so. Yeah. And that's a concern here is like, oh, the woman that I like who's married is considering getting a divorce from her husband. Yeah. But you don't want to be a factor that influences whether or not she gets divorced. She has to come to that conclusion on her own. And if she doesn't and then she regrets it, she'll end up resenting you. So it's such thin ice to skate on. And then also, like with your wife, she's dating a new guy. And like, I like that you think that he's a nice guy, and that's awesome. But I'm curious to know like, where is the boundary with these types of poly relationships where there are two committed couples who are not just committed to each other, but they're actually bound legally in marriage. Where does where is that line drawn? Like, are you setting up rules? Are you establishing guidelines? And I would say that that's something very important to do.
SPEAKER_00There has to be more communication for that. And then it seems like this girl who wrote the letter, she wasn't actually ready for polyamory. It's it seems like she got upset that she's her her wife is now going outside of the marriage because that was the terms.
SPEAKER_01Or nervous. It doesn't seem like she's upset, it just more so seems that she's nervous because she said, I have a lot of feelings about that which make me uncomfortable because he's a man. And I think that when you're gonna explore polyamory, yeah, and you're the one that's put it on the table, you pretty much have to accept it as it comes. You can't start redlining as it unfolds. Yeah. You know, like if you didn't want her to be with a man, then you should have, hey, don't be with a man. I know. You know, but I think that if you open up polyamory, if you open up the dam of polyamory in your relationship, you can't then redline things once your partner or you are moving through the process. Those things should be redlined and outlined before you start meeting other people and dating around and having sex. Because now as people move forward and they're starting to have sex and form connections and things like that, it becomes more difficult to set boundaries because now you you perhaps might look jealous versus looking secure. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And so I think that that's the boundaries before you guys even jump into it. That's I think that's what needs to happen. I think at this point, because it just started, they need to take a step back and really sit down with each other and communicate it first, and and both get on the same page because they're you can tell that they're completely on opposite pages with this thing and how it's going to work in their relationship.
SPEAKER_01I mean, and from what she shared, it seems like the relationship that she potentially has with this married woman seems a little bit deeper than the relationship she outlined with her wife and the other man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? Because she's like, oh, she's getting a divorce and I'm having feelings for her, but I don't want her to end up expecting something deeper from me. And I think that it seems like this person wants that. It seems like they want to have a deeper relationship, but they don't want to have a deep commitment to this person. And that's where I would get nervous is like the whole polyamory thing is like, where do you draw the line at commitment?
SPEAKER_00Because people are going to want a whole other relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, maybe on some level, but that's a lot that not another marriage.
SPEAKER_00That's a lot to juggle.
SPEAKER_01Especially like being with a freshly new divorcee. That sounds like a lot of pressure. So I don't know what to do. I would say that you should, like Grant and I have been saying, we think that you should take a step back from the situation. Yes. Um, reassess with your wife, put a pause on it, outline what makes you comfortable, what doesn't make you comfortable, what things can be shared between you and your wife, what things shouldn't be shared. Because obviously, you don't want your wife coming home at the end of the day being like, I just got banged out. He just turned me out. You know, that would be that would be terrible to hear.
SPEAKER_00It's rough. Yeah, that's the thing too. Like you guys need to talk about what you guys are going to be discussing, yeah. You know, after the fact of whatever may happen.
SPEAKER_01And make sure you're sharing locations. If you're gonna be poly and going over to other people's houses and traveling to whoever's house, wherever they live, who knows? You should absolutely be sharing your location with your partner and with the person that you want to pursue, the married woman, I would also put a pause on that. Yeah. Just because it seems like she's in the middle of something in her life right now. And to be thinking about going through a divorce while also wanting to explore like some aspect of polyamory or a relationship with you while you're married and she's married, that just convolutes things. And I don't know if there will be a healthy outcome to that circumstance or sustainable.
SPEAKER_00Going from a divorce and jumping directly into a polyamorous relationship doesn't sound like, you know what I mean, the smartest thing to do. I think I think she needs to take some time. Everybody needs to put a pause on all this. Everybody take a breath.
SPEAKER_01Take a beat. Okay. That's good.
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's move it on.
SPEAKER_01Let's move it on. Me and my boyfriend have been together for four years. I'm black and he's white. I'm also his first black girlfriend. Before we started dating, some of his friends called me a racial slur.
SPEAKER_00What? I'm about to Yeah, excuse me.
SPEAKER_01Before we started dating, some of his friends called me a racial slur, and he remains friends with this guy to this day.
SPEAKER_00Wow. How the hell does that work?
SPEAKER_01I don't know, but I'm finna malfunction because that pissed me off.
SPEAKER_00Let's see.
SPEAKER_01All right. I told him how messed up that was, and he said, yes, he knows and he understands, but they still barely keep in touch. Now, three years after that situation, he plays Xbox with this random kid and a group of his friends online. The random kid found my boyfriend's Instagram. They follow each other, and now on the Xbox party, this guy be calling me a monkey, saying he can't believe my white boyfriend would be with me. My boyfriend proceeds to continue playing games with this person, even though I overheard what happened. This is a big issue for me. After constantly bringing it up and being in a fight all week, asking my boyfriend to at least create a new game without this guy, my boyfriend decides to sell the Xbox to solve the problem, never address the guy directly or stick up for me. That happened a few months ago, but clearly it still bothers me. Even now, my boyfriend was still FB. What does that mean? Oh, okay. Even now, my boyfriend is still Facebook and Instagram friends with the Xbox guy until I brought it up again. He didn't see this as an issue because he doesn't post and they barely talk. My boyfriend says he understands how I was hurt and that I will that will never happen again. I love him and we've been together for so long, but I can't tolerate that ever. Now our lease renewal is coming up, and I'm like, is this the right relationship for me where I have to teach you respect? No. I know.
SPEAKER_00That's like if he can't, that's such a simple thing to s easy thing to stake up for, like, obviously. Like, what you're gonna let this random dude on Xbox say this shit about your girl and then continuously play with him, and that's crazy that he would just let him disrespect her like that. And he didn't say anything. She so she overheard him talking to him and the dude was just kind of going off. And I guess so. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What would you do? What would you do if one of your friends called me a racial slur and then a monkey, which is also a racial slur? What would you do?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'd pimp slap the hell out of him, I'd smack the shit out of him. And but I would completely disconnect from that person. Why would I ever want that person? I don't want I uh in the first place, I don't want a friend who's going to be saying racial slurs like that to to black people or to anybody. So that would be easy to just cut them out of my life if if somebody that I'm associated with is speaking to people that way. You know what I mean? So I wouldn't associate with people like that in general. But if a friend of mine said that about my girl, especially, I would, oh my god, like what if your friend got drunk? Go crazy on me.
SPEAKER_01And he was like, Oh, are you dating that monkey?
SPEAKER_00Oh man, then and he was in front of me. Yeah, he was in my face, then I'd sock the shit, I'd knock him out.
SPEAKER_01He's hanging out with you. He's like, So what's it like dating? Let's jungle juice.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's a lot like bink, you know what I mean? Like, no, I would knock him the fuck out if he if anybody ever said anybody said that to me to my face like that. But um, yeah, I I wouldn't associate with anybody like that ever again. I feel like when Especially if they if they act that way when they get drunk, because that's when I really judge people, is when they get drunk like that. And I will never give anybody the pass of like, oh, he was drunk, oh she was drunk, oh the he was just you know intoxicated, so he he didn't know what he was saying. Yeah, I'll never give anybody that pass. I feel like that's where your true colors show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true. Okay, so if you're in an interracial relationship and the person that you're dating is white, they have a responsibility to educate themselves on what it's like dating black people. Like for your for your boyfriend to just let it roll off of his shoulder like water on a duck's back, that his friends are hurling racial slurs at you is an absolute no-no. Like you should not have to tell your partner that racism is a hard line and a hard stop for you. And as your man, if he can't defend you from racists, then he can't defend you from nobody. And I just don't believe that a man that allows people to be racist towards his partner, any a man or a woman, but a man or a woman, but in this case, a man obviously, if you're dating a man and he is allowing racism to slide and it is deeply affecting you, which it even doesn't even have to deeply affect you. The fact that you are experiencing racism within his orbit and he's not handling that or nipping that in the bud expeditiously is a huge problem. And you can't be with somebody like that because if they're not gonna defend you, he won't protect you, yeah. He won't protect you. If he's not gonna defend you from racism, he won't defend you at all. If he doesn't respect your boundaries enough to protect you mentally and your emotional safety and and well-being to shield you from people who are hurling slurs at you, yeah, then he's not gonna protect you in any situation. Like that's crazy to me.
SPEAKER_00It shows that he's used to it. It shows that that's a part of like what he does. Because, you know, I will say those Xbox lobbies and shit, they get crazy. They're racist, they're racist as shit. Yeah, but it's usually it, it's usually like these 12-year-old white kids in the middle of the country who are saying the N-word and stuff. It sounds like this dude's an adult and he's got an adult friend who's saying crazy racial slurs to him about his girl.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00So it's like there, there's uh, there's just no excuse for it, you know.
SPEAKER_01I agree. That's a really good point. Like if he feels like it's not a big deal for you to be experiencing racism within his exactly within his realm, then that is the culture that he is a part of. And he generally does not see it as a big deal because he is in line with those ideologies. Yeah. I will say that when you date a white person who's never dated a black person before, I don't believe that you should give them grace. I don't believe in that, but I do believe that there is certain education that has to take place that has to come from you. Because even you and I, when we first started dating, I felt lonely because you just a lot of things you weren't clocking. You know, like I would experience racism, but it would be microaggressions. Microaggressions. It was microaggressions like we're at a table and we're at a restaurant and we're the last people to be served, or we're at a table, we're at a restaurant, and the server will come up and make direct eye contact with him and will totally ignore me. Those things like that, right? Or I would have to like educate you on like, did you see that? Like that was a microaggression. And now since then, you've become a lot more aware of those types of things and those dynamics. And even with your family who's not racist, but I was very uncomfortable around them when I first met them because your whole family is like white. And I was the only black person, like, I'm the only person, you're the only person in your family that's dating outside of whiteness, right? And so that was very uh. Different and jarring for me, especially because on my mom's side, all my cousins is mixed, and then they're all with white people. So it's like that's not abnormal to me, but and being in white spaces isn't necessarily abnormal, and I don't find that it is for most black people, but with white people, it's very abnormal for them to be in black spaces and to protect black boundaries. But it it is different to be a black person in white spaces romantically involved with a white person. And that was something that was very difficult for me to navigate. So I understand that in this listener letter that we've received, that it's difficult for her to navigate that because it definitely is a different landscape. Yeah. It's a different landscape, it's a different culture. And because the dominant class uh or or the dominant, the dominant class or racial group or demographic never understands those who don't have as much power as they do beyond the stereotypes that they've learned about them. But because, like when you're a person of color, um you learn so much about whiteness in your everyday life because you're taught to navigate it. Whereas white people aren't taught to navigate anything other than whiteness. So I think that that is where it culturally and socially gets really tied up for a lot of people who are dating interracially, especially with white people, because there's not a shared oppression there. There's not a shared oppression, there's not a shared overarching experience beyond being like American or maybe the class that you came from, right? Definitely so there's things like that that definitely come into the world.
SPEAKER_00Different historical backgrounds.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, extremely different historical backgrounds. And I think because of that, a lot of people have a difficulty navigating these things and setting boundaries for themselves too. Because to us, black people, you see racism, it's obvious to nip that in the bud. But when you're dating somebody white and they don't see racism, you're like, Are you blind? You're not seeing what's happening. So it becomes very jarring and isolating experience, which is why I think that she should not give this man a pass, not because he's uneducated, but because there's some sense of normalcy that he's experiencing when he's hearing these types of racial slurs, like the N-word or monkey or jigaboo or whatever the fuck it is.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think there's, you know, there's a big uh kind of group in America now, or just a movement in America now where people just want to sweep that stuff under the rug and they don't want to be bothered with that information or be bothered with kind of having to look in the mirror and be like, no, this is like real. This is a problem. Yeah, this is a problem. You know, like the the microaggressions and things like that, even though they're like micro, they still have a huge systemic, you know, part in our our culture and our country. So I think that there's a lot of people that kind of just sweep that under the rug. And I think a lot of interracial couples, um, possibly like when they're younger, they don't want to have those awkward conversations, or they don't want to have those conversations, and um maybe they don't want to like bother their partner with that type of information. So then they start sweeping things under the rug, and then eventually it kind of builds up into this thing of like, dude, how do how do you not see this shit? Yeah, you know, um, and so it can it can turn into resentment. But I think that you know, you were very vocal about it early on, and so which is great, and and it got us to the point where we are now to where I think I'm I'm more just in tune with you and your energy and how you're feeling in in certain environments. So if I feel like anything's off with you, then I'll make sure to check in on you, I'll make sure to see how you're feeling, I'll make sure to kind of scope the environment and how everything's going. So I think that's what it is too, is is I was able to, as time went on, I'm able to read you more. Therefore, I'm able to read these environments and these situations better.
SPEAKER_01Damn, that's a bar. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like with the listener letter that we received, I don't feel like you can build a future with a man that's gonna allow his friends or anybody in his orbit to hurl racial slurs at you. You know, especially if you're in an interracial relationship and you're date, you're dating this white man, and he is allowing people to call you a monkey or call you the N-word and find that that type of beratement is not something that needs to be checked. That tells me a lot about his background. That tells me a lot about potentially the things his family are saying about you.
SPEAKER_00And then you have to think like he's possibly saying.
SPEAKER_01Right. Or or sentiments that echo within him that he might not speak out loud. Yeah. You know, maybe, oh, well, she is. Well, she is a monkey. You know what I mean? He could easily just fall in line with those sentiments. And my concern, and I I caution anybody that wants to be in an interracial relationship, you have to make sure that you're with the type of person, especially if you're dating white, right? Particularly, because that's what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you're dating a white person, I caution you to do as much digging and research and scoping out of how they really move in their world. Because the last thing you want to do is like settle down with a person and boom, they're a racist. And now you're raising mixed kids who think they're better than other black people because they got a white parent. Like, like you don't want to perpetuate these ideologies. Yeah. And when you say, should I renew the lease? My advice would be no, because, like I said, if if he feels like it's normal to call you these things and he doesn't feel personally offended by it, even on your behalf, that's a red flag, and I don't see that that's something that can be.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's the thing about racists nowadays. Racists nowadays, they don't think they're racist. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01It's insane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's like it's they won't even think they're a racist, but they're watching Chud the Builder walk around saying the N-word. Right. And then it's like, oh no, but the message behind it is that is freedom of speech. Racists are always trying to look for the message behind it. No, yeah. It's always freedom of speech. It's always, you know what I mean? It's always they're trying to, they're trying to stop our language. You know what I mean? It's always some bullshit hidden behind some bullshit like that.
SPEAKER_01But um trying to stop our language.
SPEAKER_00No, I I think that uh I think this girl needs to draw like a very bold line in the sand and let her know that if if I'm not gonna tolerate this at all, she needs to make sure, and then they need to have those conversations because it seems like um I don't think there's any conversations to be had really.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. If you allowed your friends to call me the n-word or a monkey.
SPEAKER_00Before any of that shit happened, that that line needed to be drawn. You know what I mean? No, I I don't know. Well, no, I don't think it needed be drawn. That's a no-brainer. I know that it is a no-brainer for sure. It is a no-brainer, but like, I don't know. He just he needs to know that if somebody's saying something like that in his orbit, he needs to fucking say something.
SPEAKER_01He can be rehabilitated out of racism.
SPEAKER_00Uh, I don't know. I don't know how old he is. I don't know if he's stuck in his ways like that. I don't oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01I just don't feel like it's the burden of any black woman to educate a white man on why she shouldn't be called the N-word or a monkey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean that's uh it's obvious. Like once that happens, he's done.
SPEAKER_01Scrap him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know?
SPEAKER_00He's leftovers. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Scrap him the trash. That's my advice. Move forward. And if you date another white man, make sure you vet him because you can't, I mean, like, you just gotta be careful. You really do. Oh my god, Asia, though, all people are the same. Love is love. Shut up. No, it's not. Yeah, because if that was the case, then I would not have experienced racism for dating a white man or criticism for dating a white man. I hate it when people come to me with that. Love is love, love is love. Why do we just see color? Only white people say that to me, by the way. Like, oh, let's just stop seeing color. Yeah, I can't. My entire lived experience is based on my color. Which I love. Yeah, I love being black, would never trade it for the world. That's why when I got with you, I was like, this is what it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. So And I I was smart enough to know that if any of my friends ever said anything like that, it would not slide. You know what I mean? So, like, obviously, I had that in me.
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't let it slide either. I'm crazy. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, all right, let's move on.
SPEAKER_01Okay, the next listener letter. Me and my fiance just got engaged, and I decided that I do not want to take his last name. Here we go. A lot of people are giving me flack about that because they're saying that it's traditional and that I should just follow tradition, especially his mother. Moms, boy moms. We're back in the boy mom realm.
SPEAKER_00Gosh, here we go. Back in the boy mom sphere.
SPEAKER_01His mother especially has a problem with it and says that their family last name is their legacy. And that frustrates me. Legacy talk. Legacy talk. And that frustrates me because no one ever worries about a woman's legacy, period. My last name is very, very important to me and not something that I want to lose in marriage or in future. I do not want to hyphenate my children's names. Everybody keeps bringing that up. But at the same time, I feel like it's important for me as a woman to maintain my maiden name and move forward with that because I don't want to lose a piece of myself and a piece of my history as time passes and legacies continue to form. Am I the asshole for not wanting to change my last name? P.S. I am going to school and hopefully will be getting my doctorate later. So, no, I do not want to change my last name. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Period.
SPEAKER_01Period.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I don't think you need to change it because I don't see things in that traditional lens. And also as the child of a mother who kept kept her last name, didn't even hyphenate nothing. Just straight up kept her maiden name and then gave me her maiden name as my middle name. And now I actually go by Grant Blackwell. So I actually use her maiden last name as like my kind of work uh last name.
SPEAKER_01Because it's cool. It's cool.
SPEAKER_00It's a cool thing. It's so cool.
SPEAKER_01So like your mom being like, I'm not changing my last name, but I'm just saying.
SPEAKER_00My mom is such a boss for context. She so that's badassery.
SPEAKER_01Because that's before when women were, that's before women were really doing it.
SPEAKER_00I know. Now you know what I mean? Yeah. She's been doing it.
SPEAKER_01So she's been doing it. Yeah. And I love that she gave you her maiden name as your middle name. And now that's what you go by professionally. Grant Blackwell. That's not his real last name, y'all. But it is for all intents and purposes.
SPEAKER_00I think like honestly, like subconsciously, I always respected that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like without even thinking about it. Because I mean, I've always respected my mom, obviously. She commands respect. The fact that she kept her her own last name, I was like, dang, that's like different. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, because all my other friends and stuff, all of their moms, you know, had the same had the same, had the same last name as their dads. And I was just like, oh, that's different. I like it, you know? So I always respected that.
SPEAKER_01And it's even cooler that your mom brought the lineage back around by making it your middle name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Boss Babe, boss moves. Yeah. Yeah, uh, I'm not changing my last name. Like, we've already talked about this, and I actually posted something on TikTok and Facebook about it. How somebody said to me recently, if you guys get married, if you and Grant get married, are you gonna change your last name? I've gone my entire adult life with my last name, my professional, well, my professional identity is also my middle name. Yeah. Call me lazy or whatever, simply even just because of the paperwork. Like, I can't be bothered to do that. I'm already bad enough at doing certain paperwork for myself. I'm not gonna go through the hassle of like changing my last name. Like, nobody ever asks men to sacrifice a part of their identity in the same way they ask women to, especially women to do it so effortlessly and so willingly. And I think that I really appreciate and love when a woman is like, I'm keeping my last name, especially women who are doctors. Baby girl, you were not in school for damn near a decade just to give all those accolades to the man that didn't even attend college.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, keep that name.
SPEAKER_01Keep that name. Like if you are gonna become a doctor, why change it to, for example, also I will say, if okay, no, no, I'll finish this thought. I'm all over the place because I really I'm passionate about this conversation. Yeah. Um, if you're gonna go through all the work and labor of becoming a doctor, I do not feel like those accolades belong to your husband. They don't belong to your man, they belong to you. Yeah, your maiden name, the name that you grew up with. Now, I will say, if you became a doctor after you were married, right? You're married to this guy, you took his last name already, and then now you're like, I want to be a doctor. That's totally fine. That's on you. But I would never say, like, go through school, then get married in the middle of school just to have that accomplishment be given to the husband's last name. Yeah. Maybe I'm being too feminist or whatever people want to say. The men are gonna hate this take. I know, but I don't believe that women should just so willingly give up their last names, their maiden names. I just don't believe it.
SPEAKER_00But also, I'm not one of those like legacy ass guys where the legacies. It's so annoying. I'm so sick of it. I'm so sick of the legacy talk. I'm so it, dude, it's a name.
SPEAKER_01I know.
SPEAKER_00That's a that's how I see it too. It's like, it's just a name.
SPEAKER_01It's it's so it doesn't matter. It is, but it isn't. You know what I mean? Like for me, it's not just a name.
SPEAKER_00You're still blood, you still have a family, you still have your parents, your father, your siblings, you still have all of these things. You're not just you're not when you when you um, you know, give away your last name or don't give away your last name, nothing happens to the people in your life. You know what I mean? It's not like you give away your last name and your family dies. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's not the case, it's not that serious, it's not that urgent. So it's also not that urgent that if your wife takes your last name or not.
SPEAKER_01We've had these conversations too, where it's like, would I change my last name? No. And then also, if I was to change it, maybe this is a hot take. Sorry, father-in-law. If I was to change it, I would change it to your yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my mom's maiden last name. I literally have my mom's maiden last name tatted on me. I know. That's like I know. And like it's a cool last name.
SPEAKER_01If we have kids, whose last name are they getting? Your legal last name, your dad's last name, or your mom's maiden name.
SPEAKER_00Um, I I would say my mom's maiden last name because it's people honestly, when when people see my name, they think it's hyphenated. Technically, my middle name is my mom's maiden last name.
SPEAKER_01Um, that was smart to do instead of hyphenation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's it's not a hyphenation because then that'd be four letters, and that's just too much. Yeah, just too many words and a name. But uh, but yeah, be uh I would take that because that's what I use professionally now.
SPEAKER_01Your dad's not gonna invite me on any more trips. He hears this episode, and he's gonna be like, what a bitch.
SPEAKER_00He does get it. He does, he's a little bit feelings about it.
SPEAKER_01He's a little sensitive about it.
SPEAKER_00But um your family's gonna hate it. But he understands clearly because my mom was like, nah, I'm good. She didn't hyphenate or nothing. She just took that, she just kept her her. She should have bought babe.
SPEAKER_01But I feel like for me, yeah, there is a part of me not wanting to take your last name that that is a part of like a racialized historical dynamic. Like I just for me, as a black person who's fourth generation free, because I'm free, my dad was free, his mom was free, and his his grandma, I want to say his grandma experienced slavery. Yeah. Or his great grandma, which would make me fourth or fifth generation free. And I think that the last name that I have shows just how much resilience the people who came before me had to have for me to be here today. And that's just a part of my identity. I don't want to give up a lot of people might hate that take, but that's true. I just I don't want to give up that part of my identity and take that away from myself.
SPEAKER_00That makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_01I don't think that names are just a name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's why I don't feel like it's fair for women to be expected to give up their last name so easily when men are like, My last name's important to me. Okay, but her last name can't also be important to her. Yeah. And that's why I love this new wave of women who are like, Yeah, I'm not gonna change my last name. My kids can have my husband's last name, my partner's last name, whatever, but I will not be changing my last name. And I feel very in line with that. And I will say also the fact that your mom did not change her last name um is admirable to me. And I think it even helped me further solidify my opinion on the matter. Yeah. And and it also allowed me to to understand that you don't hold um, you don't hold fast to uh that type of system.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I grew up with um the opposite. So I I grew up with my mom uh not conforming in that way and being like, oh, this is my husband, so I have to take his name. She was like, I have a choice. Period. You know, so I I grew up with that. Yeah, I grew up with a mom who who um saw saw it that way.
SPEAKER_01And I posted this on TikTok and I said, Yeah, I'm not taking Grant's last name. And there were like a few men who were like, if she's not gonna take my last name, then I'm kicking her to the curb. I'm done with her. She can't be my wife if she will take my last name. Like, men are so incredibly shallow.
SPEAKER_00I like when they say stuff like that because now the women can see that, that they're saying stuff like that. Yeah, the clock it and avoid it.
SPEAKER_01Clock it and avoid it, I like it. My issue is that men so frequently boil women down to what women are willing to sacrifice. And I don't think that there are healthy relationships rooted in deep love and connection that are also built upon the foundation of sacrifice. Men ask women to sacrifice so much. They often ask them to sacrifice their careers to be stay-at-home moms. They ask them to sacrifice their history and their lineage by giving up their last name. They're asking them to sacrifice um their bodies by becoming mothers.
SPEAKER_00That's the biggest one right there.
SPEAKER_01They're asked women are asked to sacrifice so much.
SPEAKER_00They're not a past, they're expected.
SPEAKER_01Period. Yes, they are. Women are you're thank you for correcting me. Women are expected to sacrifice things so often and so effortlessly without even a second thought for men, that when I say like I'm keeping my last name, yes, of course, it's about my lineage and my history and how sacred my last name is to me and the people that came before me for me to just exist. You know, it's me paying like tribute to them, but it's also me moving forward through the world of I don't need the likeness or the assistance of a man to help me get through the world. And back then you did. You needed a man's last name because women and still are in many places, and even in our culture in America, are seen as property and their um proximity to men or their husbands give them worth. You know, like if a man isn't married, people are like, oh, he must be a single stud out there killing it. But when a woman's not married and she's like in her mid-30s, people start wondering what's wrong with her. Yes. And there's just so many different narratives around women and the expectation of what they are supposed to sacrifice just for male partnership. That I think that if you want to draw the line at your last name, you should. Especially if you're a professional, a working professional. Yeah. But you know, that's a conversation for you. And I don't think that there's anything. We went on a tangent, girl, but yeah, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. And as long as your husband or your fiance supports that, yeah, then you don't have to explain shit to nobody.
SPEAKER_00I know, like his mother doesn't have a say in the relationship. Screw that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, but the last thing I want to say is do you think that if we had kids and we named them your mom's last name, like, like what that gonna do to your dad? I don't want him to hate me. I don't want him to think it was fully my idea.
SPEAKER_00I mean, clearly my dad um can let things go, like let things slide like that, because his own wife didn't take his last name. So I would assume that he would just be okay with it eventually, you know.
SPEAKER_01I think he would hurt his feelings.
SPEAKER_00Because he he knows that I go by that uh um professionally. And so he, you know, he makes jokes about it, but he does he's not seriously hurt by it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay. Well, we're we're going to Mexico on a family trip with Grant's family.
SPEAKER_00So he's like, you guys aren't coming.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00This is the last well's allowed.
SPEAKER_01This is the uh this is the last trip his dad's gonna invite me on. Family, don't hate me when I get there, okay? Your last name is very cool. My last question to you, babe, is how do you feel about me not taking your last name?
SPEAKER_00Like, how does that how do you actually feel?
SPEAKER_01Like, if I didn't know.
SPEAKER_00Did we could have sworn we did? Could have sworn we there was talks of a hyphenation.
SPEAKER_01But my last name?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I miss that.
SPEAKER_00Am I that guy? Am I being toxic right now? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01I missed that conversation. So you do feel like a little way about it.
SPEAKER_00Um, because we've definitely had conversations about like our kids taking it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but I mean, I don't know. I it's not that. That's how you really feel. It's uh how I genuinely feel about it, it's not that big of a deal to me. But um, I think it'd be cool.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I don't expect you to take my last name and completely replace yours. Like, I think a hyphenation is a good okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I was just yammering on about feminism, and I'm not gonna change nothing for no man. Now you got me second guessing. Y'all don't listen to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know. We've completely switched our uh our takes, but um no, but I mean like that that's how the conversation should go. You said, how do you feel about it? And I said, you know, honestly, at the end of the day, I don't re it it's not that big of a deal to me. Um, and even the way that you put it with like, you know, your family's history and everything, like that completely makes sense to me. So, you know, I think it's a different s situation with us, right? But yeah, I mean it's a conversation to to have with people, but if you're if if the guy you're dating, you bring that up to him and his immediate answer is just I'm not I'm not gonna be with somebody who doesn't take my last name. You know what I mean? Like that's uncalled for. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_01I I think, I mean, again, I'm not gonna, I love you so much. And I I would be I'd be honored for people to be like, it's the Blackwells.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Asia Corinne Blackwell. I could be referred to that. I could, I could, uh, I could formally or informally be referred to as your last name. Blackwell, Asia Corinne Blackwell. Sounds so cool. A C B. Very cool.
SPEAKER_00A C B very cool, right?
SPEAKER_01But legally, I would not change my last name. Okay. I don't mind if we're stepping into a room and somewhere we're being announced and it's the bell, it's the Blackwells. That's totally fine. Like, I'm not gonna sit there and be like, no, wrong, you know what I mean? Um, but legally, I don't see the urgency or the desire to change my last name, even beyond like the work of paperwork, it really is just like sacred to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but and I was I was having a hard time too with our kids because I'm like, they should take my last name, you know, because like my lineage and my and my lineage and my lineage, and I'm like those legacy guys.
SPEAKER_00If you had two kids, can you give one different you can do whatever you want, there's no rules.
SPEAKER_01Really? There's no rules. If we wanted to make up a totally different last name, like Youth Slayer, we could.
SPEAKER_00Why the hell would it be that? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01How does that sound like some insane historical shit? That's like that sounds like a Is that a name in there?
SPEAKER_00No, but it sounds like it could be sounds like one of the dragon names or something.
SPEAKER_01See, yeah, youth. I know all the dragons from House of Dragons, by the way. Don't get me started. I'll name them. I'll name them. I know all of the names. But um, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01If we could make up our own last name if we wanted to, we can give our kids their own last names that don't even have to be our last names. There's so many fun things to do.
SPEAKER_00Back to the the uh listener letter. I think you know, it seem it it didn't seem like he was giving her the alternative.
SPEAKER_01No, she's just bothered by his mom, yeah, other people it sounded like who had like some chatter, and I don't know if she mentioned friends, I can't remember now, but yeah, but like that.
SPEAKER_00So well, if you're able to block all that garbage out that these people are saying, then you know, then proceed forward as you and your husband want to proceed. That's all that matters.
SPEAKER_01And if you guys choose to name your children, either hyphenate their last name, or if you choose to um give them his last name, give them his last name, and that's your choice. But that's gonna wrap it up for this episode, besties. Hopefully, a lot of what we were saying makes sense about the last name changing. Um, if y'all want to submit us any listener letters, you know it's in the link in bio as perhuge. Go ahead and give these people some advice. We love y'all so much. Don't forget to submit yourselves for our dating show because we are now casting for that, and we can't wait to see you guys. Bye, Wendy.
SPEAKER_00Bye, guys.